Its interesting how attitudes shift over time. I'm happy enough to use php off the shelf stuff now, because thats where the focus has been for mainstream web applications, theres not really a choice of using perl over php. You just have to ensure its kept up to date, and configure php/apache as well as you can. But I don't want anything to do with writing or maintaining php code. I remember a good while back, that you went away from perl towards php, and have now come back to perl. I wonder if many more php developers are migrating to perl. I think with perl and ttk, theres no need to consider php for web apps that you are going to maintain over time. Is ttk the best there is for templating in perl?